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Deep Practice. Peak Experience.
Profound Understanding.
Powerful Contribution.

Deep Transformation dialogues with cutting-edge thinkers, contemplatives, and activists to explore the great questions of our time—and all time. Join us to explore how to live life to the fullest, to create and to contribute in a new era of unprecedented challenges and opportunities.

With Roger Walsh & John Dupuy

What our listeners say

I have learned, and continue to learn, so much from these podcasts! I have listened to some of their guests such as, A.H. Almaas, Sean Esbjorn, and Ron Interpreter. Their podcasts interweave so many “disciplines” and subjects from integrative spirituality, psychology, philosophy, ancient traditions, the cosmos, and others. I’m gaining a much wider and deeper appreciation for the inter-relatedness of these areas of knowledge and practices.

I have often wondered what the term, “non-duality” really meant. After listening to their interviews and discussion with Sean Esbjorn, I finally understand the richer, broader context of its meaning.

Thank you for asking your guests insightful questions! I look forward to listening to each new podcast.

~ Sharron (sent through https://deeptransformation.io/contact/)

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Deep and intelligent

I love the thoughtfulness and depth this podcast offers. I am especially excited that you are doing some in-depth and ongoing interviews with AH Almaas! Roger and John are able to ask great questions that help reveal the incredible teachings Hameed has to offer. Thank you for enriching my life.

~ Bobchesters on Apple Podcasts (🇨🇦)

Thank you for bringing consistently thoughtful, provocative, and awakening guests to the show. The yin/yang dance (or mercurial/mars) of Roger and John's ways of processing information adds a beautiful layer of teachings to the programs.

~ Anonymous from buymeacoffee.com

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Deeply thoughtful, insightful and provocative.

Have been listening for the past year or so. So any good episodes. Hosts are gracious and allow guests lots of room while still being engaged enough for a lively conversation. Topics are broad and deep - obviously centering around spiritual topics, personal and spiritual growth, etc - but also extending into relevant adjacent areas (like the amazing conversation with Daniel Schmactenberger on the meta crisis and much much more). Also loved all the interviews with A H Almaas, Cory DeVos and Beena Sharma, among others.

HIGHLY recommended.

 ~ patrickwal on Apple Podcasts (🇺🇸)

This video or any video from Andrew are just direct, clear magnificent and soooo beneficial, they are one of my favorite, thank you for promoting and explaining such a profound practices.

~ @user-yo3mp8ek1t (on YouTube)

Praise for Andrew Holecek – The Remarkable Practice of Dream Yoga: How Lucid Dreaming Makes Sleep Endlessly Fascinating and Leads to Lucid Living (and Lucid Dying)

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Broad and Meaningful

What a wonderful podcast with interviews from a broad spectrum of people who have really plumbed the depths of human potential. The warmth and friendly nature of the hosts brings these topics down to earth. This is my new go to podcast to refresh and enliven my brain on the commute home. Thank you both so much!

~ Moniseur Qui on Apple Podcasts (🇺🇸)

Dear Roger and John, your decades of crystalizing lived Integral approaches shines so clearly! Your recent conversation with Brad Reynolds was such an elegant, pristine sweep of Wilber's work, delivered succinctly and comprehensively in a way that offers freshly available hand holds for deeper exploration of Wilber's extraordinary insights. I celebrate your big heartedness and the dignified commitment you both regularly demonstrate to honor the intricate beauties of varied perspectives, yet without avoiding or exaggerating the messy complexities of actual living. Big gratitude!

~ dragpa (sent through Facebook Messenger)

Praise for Brad Reynolds – Ken Wilber’s Map of Everything: A Guide to the Brilliance & Span of Wilber’s Work from Philosophy to Psychology, Spirituality and Science

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Worth It

Just finished the first episode. Excellent conversation that had good pace, light humor, deep thoughts, clear explanations and plenty of heart and humility. A really winning blend of all those qualities in a winning way. Very nourishing to not just hear a dry intellectual recitation of theory, but to have it expressed and lived in a full body manner during the delivery by all involved.

From the trailer, “Feeling over fed and undernourished? So are we. So we made this podcast.”

Mission accomplished. An excellent multi course home cooked meal worthy of our time. Dive in!

~ Studio Teacher Scott on Apple Podcasts (🇺🇸)

Praise for Jeff Salzman – Polarization, Being Woke, the Universal Agenda, Mindfulness Going Bad, and the Integral Vision

Above and beyond enjoying your coffee, I’d like you to be happy and well, free from affliction and at peace. I am experiencing an upswing now, that your fine podcast has contributed to. Since listening to it, I have gotten through a bit more than half of the Dhamapada. In addition, I am doing well with my endurance regimen, which has stabilized many symptoms of my spinal cord deficit for the time being. I bicycled to a nice spot by the Salt river in the Tonto National Forest to hear and learn birdsong melodies, which I’ll use for original classical guitar compositions and disseminating concepts of bird conservation/extinction and ecosystem services acquired from the Cornell University ornithology lab’s online program, while introducing the songs to general audiences who urgently need to be reached. I experienced the iridescence of twilight’s spectrum on my way back home.

~ Michael Weiss from buymeacoffee.com

Deep Transformation | Listen Notes

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LATEST PODCAST EPISODES

Emptying the Heart of All that Obscures the Inner Beloved

By Heidi Mitchell | March 19, 2026

“Love is a much bigger force for a human being than any other thing.”

In Part 1 of Deep Transformation’s second Path of Love Series dialogue with A. H. Almaas, we learn what a spiritual journey on the path of love entails: particularly, emptying our heart so it can discover the deepest inner truth, the inner beloved. “Most of the path of love has to do with emptying the heart with love and yearning combined to burn through all the idols which stand for the inner beloved,” Hameed says. “The heart knows it loves something deeper than itself… and it pains it that it is separate from it.” There are other paths of awakening, for example, the Buddhist way is largely the path of mind, but for Hameed it was the path of heart that took center stage and revealed its secrets. 

The path of love is not methodical or intentional—it just happens, Hameed continues. The beloved works on the heart, works on the soul, and throws itself nearer—and it’s in this nearness that you encounter all the obstacles that keep you from uniting with the beloved. Longtime practitioner, co-host Roger Walsh mentions that the exercises included in Hameed’s latest book, The Inner Beloved, intended to help us remove our blocks to perceiving the inner beloved, have worked a treat for him, opening him up in a new way to where his practice feels more flowing and easeful than before. “Love is sorely needed these days on earth,” Hameed concludes, “as our hearts are full of garbage—wounding, hatred, envy. But there is an organ in the soul—the heart—which has its own dynamic: yearning, love, intensity, and passion that penetrate the barriers and dissolve them.” Another deeply moving and illuminating conversation with co-founder of the Diamond Approach, Hameed Ali. Recorded January 8, 2026.

Christianity is About Love. Christian Nationalism is Not. Calling Out the Hypocrites with John Fugelsang

By Heidi Mitchell | March 12, 2026

“The greatest tragedy to me is when people think that something is religion and don’t realize it’s just fundamentalism.”

In Part 2 of our eloquent, passionate, and humorous, dialogue with comedian John Fugelsang, author of the important and irreverent book, Separation of Church and Hate: A Sane Person’s Guide to Taking Back the Bible from Fundamentalists, Fascists, and Flock-Fleecing Frauds, we come to understand what fundamentalism is, and what it signifies for our culture, our politics, and our future. John outlines five common features that characterize fundamentalism across religious traditions, pointing out that fundamentalist Christians have more in common with fundamentalist Muslims than they do with moderate and liberal Christians. “I go after fundamentalists of all religions,” John says, “because it’s turning people off to faith—ruining Christianity, ruining Islam, ruining Judaism.” This is the tragedy for John and what fuels his passion for calling out the hypocrites who do hateful things in the name of religion.

John also enlightens us as to what Christian nationalism is all about, starting way back: “In the U.S., our history of Christianity is inseparable from our history of white supremacy.” Christian nationalism’s religion is power—a gospel of domination over love. Authoritarian leaders and their followers all worship power, he continues, and fills us in on how Christian nationalism is playing out in Russia now. John’s own message is not hateful; his intention is to make it clear that Jesus always taught love and kindness; to suggest that if the Church wants to survive, it needs to go back to the teachings of Jesus; and to help us come together in a common understanding of fundamental values. “It’s hard to love the bigot in your family,” John says. But we can “…hold to the deepest values, the most love, and do what needs to be done with love. We can’t hate the haters back, but we have to beat them without hating them—that’s the challenge.” Recorded December 18, 2025.

Taking Back the Bible from Fundamentalists & Frauds (You Seriously Believe Jesus Said What?) with John Fugelsang

By Heidi Mitchell | March 5, 2026

“Jesus is not about condemnation or domination; his whole movement is about transformation.”

Ep. 224 (Part 1 of 2) | John Fugelsang, author of the brilliant, irreverent book, Separation of Church and Hate: A Sane Person’s Guide to Taking Back the Bible from Fundamentalists, Fascists, and Flock-Fleecing Frauds, talks eloquently about the difference between true Christianity as taught by Jesus and the hateful teachings of Christian nationalists and televangelists who are in it for the power and the money. John grew up with a clear notion of what Christianity should look like; his parents lived their faith grounded in peace, love, empathy, and service, dedicating their lives to helping people in need, no matter their color or differences. So John set out to take the Bible back from “small-minded, right-wing, nationalist racists,” because he finds it tragic that vast numbers of people are being alienated from faith altogether, and he wanted to give his readers arguments they could use to face off with right-wing Christians about what the Bible really says. Christians and atheists have told him his book validates all of their beliefs, and he has inspired crowds of atheists to cheer loudly for Jesus.
John is an actor, comedian, and talk show host, and his quick wit and well-informed, well-intentioned intellect make for a fast-paced, enjoyable, and educational foray into subjects such as how right-wing nationalists have made Christianity out to be a religion of condemnation and domination; how they quote Saint Paul, with all of his sex hangups and homophobia, rather than Jesus; and how it’s always been the Christ followers pushing back against authoritarian Christianity—adding that Jesus’ teachings are as threatening to authoritarian power today as they were 2,000 years ago. This is a timely, very important conversation about a subject that involves all of us: reclaiming the foundational values of love, humility, open-mindedness, and service. Recorded December 18, 2025.

Lessons of War: Courage & Creative Leadership Flourish in Ukraine 

By Heidi Mitchell | February 26, 2026

“The best way to practice spirituality is human rights assurance and activism; all the rest is secondary.”

Four solid years since Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine, integral thinkers Kateryna Yasko and Vytautas Bučiūnas relate what life in Ukraine is like—emotionally, physically, spiritually. Far from what you might expect of a conversation about the state of Ukraine after four years of war—far from being battered and downtrodden—this is a story of resilience, resourcefulness, courage, and accelerated human development. Kateryna likens Ukraine to a living laboratory of transformation—with everyone united in the fight to preserve democracy and their identity as a nation, “the social fabric is strong, the resilience is astonishing…heroes receive a lot of gratitude from the people they serve.” On a personal level, Kateryna and Vytas share how they have grown in ways they wouldn’t have expected: capacities have widened, appreciation of life has deepened, and experiences of profound joy arise in giving their all, together with their compatriots, for the future of the next generation.

Leadership in Ukraine is in an evolutionary elevator, Vytautas, an integral leadership development consultant, tells us. Leaders no longer have the option to be reactive or habitual, and this has generated extraordinary creativity and courage in leadership in the military, business, politics, and social groups. Kateryna, a pedagogical psychologist, points out that human rights, democracy, and freedom are foundational for spiritual growth. People need to understand how to manifest their political self, she says, because if they don’t, they will tend to escape into spirituality in a form of spiritual bypassing. “What can we do to help? co-host John Dupuy asks. “Come to Ukraine!” Kateryna and Vytas respond. Come experience and co-create the vertical development happening in this living laboratory of modern crisis. Recorded February 8, 2026.

Passion, Ecstasy & Challenges on the Path of Love with A. H. Almaas

By Heidi Mitchell | February 19, 2026

“The mind asks the questions, the heart finds the answers. The mind gets clear, the heart melts.“

Ep. 222 (Part 2 of 2) | A. H. Almaas’ teachings on spiritual love and the inner beloved are based on his own experience, he explains in Part 2 of the first dialogue in the Path of Love Series. “In this path, experience is almost everything,” he says. Spiritual experience created the Diamond Approach—it isn’t a philosophy. What makes Hameed’s path of love unique and different from other paths of love, like the Sufi and the bhakti paths? First off, it is the methodology: the practice of inquiry. Inquiry combines both mind and heart, Hameed explains. It adds a means of discernment that helps to keep the force of love from going astray on its own; it brings understanding to our experience, and shows us our obstacles. “[This path] has in it the sensibilities of modern mind and modern life and how to live it from the perspective of the heart.”
Another unique feature of A. H. Almaas’ path of love is how we experience drawing closer and closer to the inner beloved. Hameed describes the experience of approaching the inner beloved as a heartrending mixture of “sweetness, passion, ecstasy, drunkenness… many stages of melting, surrender, effulgence, fullness, radiance… all intertwined with yearning and pain and the feeling of being separate” from one’s heart’s true desire. With his customary concise eloquence, Hameed also answers several of the co-hosts’ questions: How does Hameed see contemporary society in the light of this vision of love? Does he think humanity will wake up? What is a fulfilled life? Hameed concludes by telling us that the question this path of love is designed to answer is, how do you live your life while also engaging in the way of the heart? Recorded December 11, 2025.

Entering the Path of Heart: Love and the Jealous Beloved

By Heidi Mitchell | February 12, 2026

“The beloved is the deepest nondual truth you can experience.”

Ep. 221 (Part 1 of 2) | Deep Transformation is excited to release the first episode in our new Path of Love Series with A. H. Almaas, in honor and celebration of Hameed Ali’s latest book, The Inner Beloved. The series begins with Hameed sharing his motivation for writing all three of the books in his Love Trilogy (Love Unveiled, Nondual Love, The Inner Beloved), namely, when he realized his prior books had omitted to teach specifically about the role of love on the spiritual path. Love is the energy, the driving force toward union with our inner nature, Hameed explains, and it is love that dissolves the obstacles that remain towards the end of the path. It is the path of heart that gets you all the way.

Hameed orients us with an overview of the Diamond Approach’s experiential path of love, gifting us with some tremendous teachings on love as a prelude to delving deeply into his newest book, The Inner Beloved. When asked, What is the inner beloved? he responds, The beloved is not just love. Love serves the beloved, love is the way to the beloved. The inner beloved is what our deepest heart longs for. The path of the heart is painful at times, he continues, because we feel separate from what we yearn to become one with. At the end of the dialogue, Hameed shares that with his path of love teachings, he wants us to know there is a way to address our longing, our yearning. There is a way for it to complete itself, he assures us. Recorded December 11, 2025.

Can Our Democracy Be Healed? Taking Up the Fight

By Heidi Mitchell | February 5, 2026

“To understand is to forgive.” – Dr. Michael Fischler

Ep. 220 (Part 2 of 2) | In part 2 of Sliding Towards Authoritarianism, Constitutional Law expert and Ethics professor Mark Fischler continues to explain why our democracy is faltering and considers what we might do to heal it. He further unpacks the significance of the extreme lack of civic understanding in the United States and, well informed about students’ cognitive abilities and mental health status nationwide, Professor Fischler adds the precipitous drop in achievement scores and through-the-roof diagnoses of ADHD, autism, anxiety, and depression to the mix, concluding, “You begin to see why an authoritarian world requiring only simple actions and answers would be more attractive than a democratic world that requires complexity, conversation, and the ability to see the intrinsic worth of the person across from you…the collective decision to honor democratic processes and the winner who was voted in.”

This is the challenge, Mark says: since everybody has a partial piece of the truth, we need to ask ourselves, am I curious enough to understand another’s partial piece of truth in order to enrich myself and help me understand that we are all in this together? We need to take up the fight for greater awareness that recognizes the good, the true, the beautiful, and the oneness of what is, Mark continues. Even after Mark’s poignant, in-depth look at the effects of the “course discourse” that has come to dominate the political arena and other significant factors contributing to the deterioration of our democracy, when asked what gives him hope, Mark answers, “A lot of things!” The discussion ends in a hopeful place—grim realities balanced with inspiring trends, including the growing recognition around the world that this is a global village we all live in together. Recorded December 4, 2025.

Sliding Towards Authoritarianism: Our Failing Democracy & What We Can Do About It

By Heidi Mitchell | January 29, 2026

“An ignorant people can never remain a free people.” – Thomas Jefferson

Ep. 219 (Part 1 of 2) | Constitutional Law expert and Ethics professor Mark Fischler joins Deep Transformation again, to help us make sense of the slide towards authoritarianism happening in the United States today. Mark’s vast knowledge of the law, the Constitution, and the Supreme Court, his deep comprehension of ethics and morality, his Integral understanding, and his profound contemplative awareness all make for an extraordinary exploration of what is going on in this country at levels we don’t often consider. Beginning with examples of events in 2025 that are representative of various facets of authoritarianism, Mark goes on to discuss how the very crassness of the current Administration is undermining democracy: “We need to demand civil, fact-based discussion from our leaders, but we’re all accepting it’s okay to act like toddlers and dehumanize each other.”

Mark cites some stunning figures illustrating the widespread ignorance of democratic processes and institutions among the populace in this country, and describes why a lack of civic understanding makes us susceptible to authoritarians coming in and taking over. He also acknowledges that progressives are at fault for marginalizing conservatives, and calls on us to recognize the honor and dignity of all people, regardless of their politics—this is part of the solution, he explains. Mark’s passionate caring, wanting the best for all people and all beings, is a current that flows throughout, grounding the discussion in a beautiful way, while also making for a heartbreaking contrast relative to the chilling events happening in the political arena now. Recorded December 4, 2025.

Welcoming the Absolute: What Happens When Reality Lives Through You

By Heidi Mitchell | January 22, 2026

“If we become mature enough to cease and desist, to let reality take its course… when we’re out of the way, true nature will come through—that’s what a true human is.”

Ep. 218 (Part 2 of 2) | In Part 2 of the 17th dialogue in the A. H. Almaas Wisdom Series, Hameed Ali explores the great freedom we experience when we allow being itself to unfold through us—when we let reality take its course without our egoic selves getting in the way. When we are out of the way, Hameed explains, all the virtues come through us: responsibility, ethics, morality, compassion, caring, sensitivity, and more. These ideals are not human-made, he says, they are expressions of our true nature. In fact, Hameed adds, this is what a true human is; expressing the absolute is the fulfillment of life. 

Just knowing the absolute does not eliminate all obstacles, Hameed continues. Even as we go very deep, there are “ego islands” that pose ongoing difficulties. But the practice is to be with our experience and let it inform us—allow our life experiences to become the arena for the expression of spirit. All we need to do is abide in the knowing that the absolute is expressing itself through us, Hameed says. And laughs telling a story about the “do nothing” instructions of lamas and Zen teachers, as they attempt to show their students that there is nothing to be done but get out of the way. All manifestation, our lives, even our problems and challenges and getting lost in the illusion is all a play of the absolute, Roger reflects. Another very rich, deeply nourishing conversation with A. H. Almaas. Recorded November 13, 2025.

Awakening is Not the End of the Story: Living as the Radiance of the Absolute 

By Heidi Mitchell | January 15, 2026

“It is inherent to true nature for it to be lived in the world.”

Ep. 217 (Part 1 of 2) | In the 17th dialogue of the A. H. Almaas Wisdom Series, Hameed Ali explores the classic spiritual theme: the journey of descent. What happens after we awaken, having had a realization of the deepest kind? The path of descent, where we retain the awareness of what came with our experience of the absolute, and bring it into our life, expressing it with every aspect of our being. Many teachings talk about the ascent (the journey of awakening) and the descent, Hameed explains, but when they talk about the descent, they interpret it as an individual coming down the mountain with their great realization. Hameed thought this was how it happened too, he laughs. But then it became clear to him following his own descent that it is not an enlightened individual who descends back into the world—it’s the absolute. In Christian terms, it’s the father who comes, appearing as the son.
What was it like for Hameed as he descended, living in the absolute dimension at the same time as living in the everyday world? co-host John Dupuy asks. Something transcendent lives through the body with the individual as the organ of perception, Hameed responds. “The entire universe becomes subtle shimmerings…like the waves in quantum theory; the blackness so extreme that it shines—and that sheen is the world.” Different from the classic Eastern spiritual path, where what is significant is living the transcendent rather than living regular life, in the Diamond Approach (Hameed’s path), actualization is the goal, coming back to the everyday world and living life as an expression of the Absolute. Recorded November 13, 2025.

Photo of Roger Walsh
Photo of Roger Walsh

Roger Walsh, M.D., Ph.D. DHL

Roger’s day jobs include being a University of California professor (of psychiatry, philosophy, anthropology, and religious studies), as well as a writer and researcher whose work has received over 20 national and international awards. Roger is also a meditation student, teacher, and researcher, a Tibetan Buddhist lama, and was formerly a circus acrobat, a world record high diver, and a spectacularly unsuccessful standup comedian.

Photo of John Dupuy

John Dupuy, M.A.

Professional wilderness guide, award-winning author, CEO of iAwake Technologies, pioneer applying Integral Theory to the field of addiction & recovery, dedicated tennis player...In his other lives, John has been a singer/songwriter, military police investigator, cowboy, and psychedelic guide. John is passionate about the grit, grind, glory, and grace of daily Integral practice.

Photo of John Dupuy