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Healing Trauma
Where Science, Spirituality & Indigenous Wisdom Meet: The Remarkable Contributions of Filmmakers Zaya & Maurizio Benazzo
“There is no spiritual work without trauma work.”
Ep. 211 (Part 1 of 2) | Zaya and Maurizio Benazzo are not only the founders of the longstanding and highly regarded Science & Nonduality Conference (SAND), but also brilliant filmmakers, producing stunning documentaries about the injustice and suffering occurring in Palestine and elsewhere, as well as films that feature the eternal wisdom of elders from Indigenous communities around the world. Zaya and Maurizio are clearly passionate about their work, and co-host Roger Walsh points out they do a beautiful job of intertwining the personal, professional, and spiritual into an offering that meets the needs of our time. As Maurizio says, “There is no spiritual work. Period. Everything is spiritual work! It’s life.”
In Part 1 of this episode, lively and inspired, Zaya and Maurizio share what they’ve learned about life, spirituality, trauma, healing, guidance, and the deep-time perspective of the Maori. They relate the trajectory of SAND’s evolution from featuring male-dominated nondual teachings to include an understanding of trauma, somatic healing, feminine, earth-oriented teachings, and Indigenous wisdom. “Healing never ends; it’s a lifelong journey—there’s no modern solution that will ‘fix’ you,” Zaya tells us. Also, “We are constantly being guided if we just listen.”
In Part 2, Zaya and Maurizio describe the making of their 2021 documentary about the tragic mistreatment of Palestinians in the West Bank, a beautiful, heartbreaking film called Where Olive Trees Weep. Also their film The Eternal Song, an ongoing project to bring forth Indigenous teachings, so valuable and timely for us now in our chaotic, disconnected world. This whole conversation is thought provoking, delightful, profound, paradigm shifting, and inspiring all at once. Recorded October 16, 2025.
Read MoreThe Healing Power of Creating Art & Current Politics from an Integral Taoist Perspective with Sally Adnams Jones (Part 1)
“The basis of self-esteem is agency—and how you find agency is finding your hands, your heart, and your voice.”
Ep. 187 (Part 1 of 2) | Dr. Sally Adnams Jones has pioneered the field of art therapy as an agent of transformation and healing, choosing to work particularly with people living with no economic infrastructure: refugees, and victims of natural disasters, genocide, war, pandemics, and more. What Sally has found is that creating art within a community works miracles for the dispossessed and traumatized, in that it provides an embodied, practical method of engendering feelings of pride, a sense of belonging, finding one’s voice, and perceiving the future as something one can affect and shape. In fact, this work is applicable to everyone everywhere—it is in accessing our creativity that we come to ask, “How do we start to build the world we need?” An Integral Taoist, Sally shares her perspective on the yin and yang of creativity, explaining that ultimately, creativity is emergence working through the human body.
At the heart of Integral Taoism is an understanding that the nature of emergence itself is to become aware of your polarity and integrate it. The more you do that, the more creative you become. The discussion transitions from the dance of polarity in creativity to how the polarities of yin and yang are playing out in politics today. Sally is a Canadian therapist and exceptionally well informed about politics—here we gain a perspective on current U.S. – Canadian relations and world politics that is revelatory. Recorded May 29, 2025.
Read MoreMark Walsh & Kristina Obluchynska (Part 2) – Trauma Treatment in Ukraine: Facing and Healing the Horrendous Wounds of War
“It’s not reasonable for young women to be talking about mass rape and torture in dark bomb shelters . . . There’s a darkness that will be there perhaps forever.”
Ep. 171 (Part 2 of 2) | An emotionally powerful and deeply inspiring conversation with renowned embodiment and trauma educator Mark Walsh from the U.K. and Ukrainian psychologist and trauma trainer Kristina Obluchynska, where we learn about effective ways of treating trauma in the middle of an ongoing war, what trauma therapists are left holding, and how beautiful is the human spirit when it embraces right action. When Russia commenced its full-scale invasion of Ukraine three years ago, Mark went to Ukraine, located willing psychology students, educated them in body-oriented trauma therapy and training, and with Kristina and several other trainees co-founded Sane Ukraine, with the urgent mission of preventing an epidemic of trauma disorders in Ukraine. Beginning with applying trauma first aid and teaching resilience skills in places like the local railroad station where people were coming in from the front lines, and in bomb shelters, Kristina and several other psychologists have now educated thousands of people about trauma—active duty soldiers, veterans, survivors, wives of combatants, and first-line responders such as doctors, teachers, and social workers—and trained hundreds of them to become trauma trainers themselves.
It is an honor to bear witness to Mark’s courageous actions and the humble heroism of Kristina and her team in the face of the devastation being leveled on Ukraine and Ukrainians. “We don’t grieve,” Kristina tells us, “because grief comes after safety. We don’t even use the word safe anymore,” she continues, “only relatively safe.” Mark points out that modern warfare is not just running around with guns—drones hunt civilians and if you move, they kill you. “Do we all have PTSD?” the soldiers ask. With Sane Ukraine, there is someone to answer their questions and teach them what they can do to help themselves and each other. Resilience comes from relationship—from connection to self, others, nature, and spirit. Does the concept of post traumatic growth even apply considering the intensity of this war? co-host Roger wonders. At the end of this extraordinary, heartfelt conversation, when asked what we could do to help, Kristina advises, “Help the army. We are talking here about healing, but what we really need is to survive.” Recorded January 9, 2025.
Read MoreMark Walsh & Kristina Obluchynska (Part 1) – Trauma Treatment in Ukraine: Facing and Healing the Horrendous Wounds of War
“There is nothing that can prepare human psychology for modern warfare.”
Ep. 170 (Part 1 of 2) | An emotionally powerful and deeply inspiring conversation with renowned embodiment and trauma educator Mark Walsh from the U.K. and Ukrainian psychologist and trauma trainer Kristina Obluchynska, where we learn about effective ways of treating trauma in the middle of an ongoing war, what trauma therapists are left holding, and how beautiful is the human spirit when it embraces right action. When Russia commenced its full-scale invasion of Ukraine three years ago, Mark went to Ukraine, located willing psychology students, educated them in body-oriented trauma therapy and training, and with Kristina and several other trainees co-founded Sane Ukraine, with the urgent mission of preventing an epidemic of trauma disorders in Ukraine. Beginning with applying trauma first aid and teaching resilience skills in places like the local railroad station where people were coming in from the front lines, and in bomb shelters, Kristina and several other psychologists have now educated thousands of people about trauma—active duty soldiers, veterans, survivors, wives of combatants, and first-line responders such as doctors, teachers, and social workers—and trained hundreds of them to become trauma trainers themselves.
It is an honor to bear witness to Mark’s courageous actions and the humble heroism of Kristina and her team in the face of the devastation being leveled on Ukraine and Ukrainians. “We don’t grieve,” Kristina tells us, “because grief comes after safety. We don’t even use the word safe anymore,” she continues, “only relatively safe.” Mark points out that modern warfare is not just running around with guns—drones hunt civilians and if you move, they kill you. “Do we all have PTSD?” the soldiers ask. With Sane Ukraine, there is someone to answer their questions and teach them what they can do to help themselves and each other. Resilience comes from relationship—from connection to self, others, nature, and spirit. Does the concept of post traumatic growth even apply considering the intensity of this war? co-host Roger wonders. At the end of this extraordinary, heartfelt conversation, when asked what we could do to help, Kristina advises, “Help the army. We are talking here about healing, but what we really need is to survive.” Recorded January 9, 2025.
Read MoreKeith Witt (Part 2) – Relationship’s Farther Reaches: Exploring the Potentials of Loving, Learning, and Growing Together
Ep. 169 (Part 2 of 2) | Integral psychologist Keith Witt can’t get enough of the magic and beauty that happens in relationships as people begin to develop what he calls “a post-issue consciousness.” He explains that when our executive self, our wise self or witness, kicks in and forges a caring connection with the places where we hold our hurt and our traumas, then integration and healing start to happen, eventually with almost no conscious energy expenditure. “My job is to help people develop the witness,” Keith says, so they can observe their defensive or destructive states and reach for compassionate understanding, for themselves, for their partner, and for others.
Keith tells us the three foundations of the modern marriage are friendship, a love affair, and an ability to resolve issues that come up, and says the shift to a post-issue relationship happens when all three facets become intentional. “Post-issue couples don’t let things get in the way of their love,” he says. Throughout the conversation, Keith shares a goldmine of therapeutic wisdom on the subject of relationships, including the client/therapist relationship, and in true Integral fashion, he includes perspectives from all sorts of interesting angles, such as our evolutionary development, neural development, and moral and spiritual development. This discussion is warm, friendly, cheerful, lively, and chock full of useful information and insights. Keith’s excitement about the evolutionary directionality of human relationships is contagious and inspiring. Recorded August 16, 2024.
Read MoreKeith Witt (Part 1) – Relationship’s Farther Reaches: Exploring the Potentials of Loving, Learning, and Growing Together
Ep. 168 (Part 1 of 2) | Integral psychologist Keith Witt can’t get enough of the magic and beauty that happens in relationships as people begin to develop what he calls “a post-issue consciousness.” He explains that when our executive self, our wise self or witness, kicks in and forges a caring connection with the places where we hold our hurt and our traumas, then integration and healing start to happen, eventually with almost no conscious energy expenditure. “My job is to help people develop the witness,” Keith says, so they can observe their defensive or destructive states and reach for compassionate understanding, for themselves, for their partner, and for others.
Keith tells us the three foundations of the modern marriage are friendship, a love affair, and an ability to resolve issues that come up, and says the shift to a post-issue relationship happens when all three facets become intentional. “Post-issue couples don’t let things get in the way of their love,” he says. Throughout the conversation, Keith shares a goldmine of therapeutic wisdom on the subject of relationships, including the client/therapist relationship, and in true Integral fashion, he includes perspectives from all sorts of interesting angles, such as our evolutionary development, neural development, and moral and spiritual development. This discussion is warm, friendly, cheerful, lively, and chock full of useful information and insights. Keith’s excitement about the evolutionary directionality of human relationships is contagious and inspiring. Recorded August 16, 2024.
Read MoreKim Moore & Fateen Jackson (Part 2) – Guiding Rage into Power: From Prisoners to Lifelong Peacemakers
Ep. 161 (Part 2 of 2) | In this profoundly moving and inspiring conversation, GRIP Training Institute CEO, Kim Moore, and facilitator/trainer Fateen Jackson, Sr., also a GRIP graduate, educate us as to the power and magic of the GRIP prison movement, based on Jacques Verduin’s model: Leaving Prison Before You Get Out. This yearlong trauma healing and accountability program is unique in the degree of radical transformation it aims for—and delivers. It is about freeing minds, and as Kim points out, goes beyond the duality of teacher/student, inmate/not inmate, victim/offender to where everyone joins in a mutual journey of healing, transformation, and liberation.The program is so transformative that ripple effects from GRIP students can be felt throughout the prison, and GRIP graduates often struggle with how little emotional intelligence and trauma healing work the rest of us have done when they get out.
Kim and Fateen shine a bright light on the inestimable value of a caring, compassionate community, pointing out that deep personal transformation and taking responsibility doesn’t happen in isolation. They share illuminating stories of their own experiences, and the dedication and gladness they exude in this talk is itself impactful and inspiring. There is something in this conversation, maybe because it touches our deepest brokenness and then lifts it up and redeems it, that reaches right into one’s heart and infuses it with inspiration, hope, compassion, and love. Recorded November 21, 2024.
Read MoreKim Moore & Fateen Jackson (Part 1) – Guiding Rage into Power: From Prisoners to Lifelong Peacemakers
Ep. 160 (Part 1 of 2) | In this profoundly moving and inspiring conversation, GRIP Training Institute CEO, Kim Moore, and facilitator/trainer Fateen Jackson, Sr., also a GRIP graduate, educate us as to the power and magic of the GRIP prison movement, based on Jacques Verduin’s model: Leaving Prison Before You Get Out. This yearlong trauma healing and accountability program is unique in the degree of radical transformation it aims for—and delivers. It is about freeing minds, and as Kim points out, goes beyond the duality of teacher/student, inmate/not inmate, victim/offender to where everyone joins in a mutual journey of healing, transformation, and liberation.The program is so transformative that ripple effects from GRIP students can be felt throughout the prison, and GRIP graduates often struggle with how little emotional intelligence and trauma healing work the rest of us have done when they get out.
Kim and Fateen shine a bright light on the inestimable value of a caring, compassionate community, pointing out that deep personal transformation and taking responsibility doesn’t happen in isolation. They share illuminating stories of their own experiences, and the dedication and gladness they exude in this talk is itself impactful and inspiring. There is something in this conversation, maybe because it touches our deepest brokenness and then lifts it up and redeems it, that reaches right into one’s heart and infuses it with inspiration, hope, compassion, and love. Recorded November 21, 2024.
Read MoreRon Interpreter (Part 2) – Ancestral Wisdom for Spirituality, Recovery & Life: An Integration of Native Traditions, Psychedelic Experiences & Integral Theory
Ep. 152 (Part 2 of 2) | Life coach, recovery coach, and plant medicine ceremonialist Ron Interpreter has created a multidimensional, whole person healing modality that integrates Navajo spiritual teachings and traditions with Ken Wilber’s Integral Model and Integral spirituality. Humanity is shifting, Ron explains, and is now looking to the teachings of the ancestors and Indigenous practices that can bring a sense of authenticity, purpose, and meaning to our lives. Native spirituality teaches us how we can relate to the elements of earth, fire, water and air in terms of remedies and medicines, and also in terms of beliefs and emotional connections. Plant medicine and other mind-altering ceremonies provide us with the means to get beyond the psychological limitations we put on ourselves, attain higher states of consciousness, and receive answers to our deepest questions.
With a calm, articulate fervency, Ron shares the ancestral wisdom he teaches to people in recovery or who are suffering from trauma, including special ops forces and veterans: the Native concepts of taking responsibility, being accountable, forging a relationship with God or Spirit, and living from a profound understanding of what it means to be a human being. “We are in the creation of self—how do we practice our selves?” Ron asks. The Indigenous teachings that Ron brings forward provide a deep sense of grounding in Nature and Spirit, as we come to a better understanding of our place in the universe and the practices that can open us up to living in a sacred way, in connection with divine being. Recorded August 1, 2024.
Read MoreRon Interpreter (Part 1) – Ancestral Wisdom for Spirituality, Recovery & Life: An Integration of Native Traditions, Psychedelic Experiences & Integral Theory
Ep. 151 (Part 1 of 2) | Life coach, recovery coach, and plant medicine ceremonialist Ron Interpreter has created a multidimensional, whole person healing modality that integrates Navajo spiritual teachings and traditions with Ken Wilber’s Integral Model and Integral spirituality. Humanity is shifting, Ron explains, and is now looking to the teachings of the ancestors and Indigenous practices that can bring a sense of authenticity, purpose, and meaning to our lives. Native spirituality teaches us how we can relate to the elements of earth, fire, water and air in terms of remedies and medicines, and also in terms of beliefs and emotional connections. Plant medicine and other mind-altering ceremonies provide us with the means to get beyond the psychological limitations we put on ourselves, attain higher states of consciousness, and receive answers to our deepest questions.
With a calm, articulate fervency, Ron shares the ancestral wisdom he teaches to people in recovery or who are suffering from trauma, including special ops forces and veterans: the Native concepts of taking responsibility, being accountable, forging a relationship with God or Spirit, and living from a profound understanding of what it means to be a human being. “We are in the creation of self—how do we practice ourselves?” Ron asks. The Indigenous teachings that Ron brings forward provide a deep sense of grounding in Nature and Spirit, as we come to a better understanding of our place in the universe and the practices that can open us up to living in a sacred way, in connection with divine being. Recorded August 1, 2024.
Read MoreKeeping the Soul of Ukraine Alive: Maintaining Personal & National Ideals while Under Fire in Ukraine, with Kateryna Yasko & Vytautas Bučiūnas
Psychologist and non-violent communications trainer Kateryna Yasko and her husband, Vytautas Bučiūnas, Integral Master Coach and leadership development expert, relate what it’s like to live in war-torn Ukraine, two years since the Russian invasion began. They share why they chose to return to Kyiv from the safe haven of Lithuania, and describe a “special form of happiness” that occurs when the fragility and beauty of life is brought to the fore, as Russian missiles and drones continue to target civilians and cultural landmarks. It is an existential battle being fought for Ukraine, and Kateryna & Vytas are deeply aware of the importance of keeping the soul of Ukraine alive, the cultural code, the foundation of any democratic nation’s identity. Among other things, Kateryna works with theater groups to stage productions that help make meaning of what Ukrainians are going through, help with processing PTSD, and keep cultural expression alive.
This poignant conversation reveals what extraordinary courage human beings are capable of when put to the test: to protect loved ones, country, and the values of truth, justice, freedom, and democracy. Kateryna and Vytas emphasize that love is not enough to protect our innate rights and that pacifism is not an option in this case. They provide us with a glimpse into personal family life in modern wartime, a psychological portrait of where Ukrainians are at, a request for help, and a wake up call for all to understand that democracy around the world is not a given and that there are times, like this, when we need to stand up and fight for it. Recorded January 23, 2024.
Read MoreColette Baron-Reid & Dr. Bob Weathers (Part 2) – Humanizing Addiction, Sustaining Long-Term Recovery: Healing Effects of Trauma, Stigma & Shame, and Forging Lives of Connection, Service & Gratitude
Ep. 111 (Part 2 of 2) | Colette Baron-Reid and Dr. Bob Weathers shine a bright light on the big picture state of addiction in our fragmented culture today—how people have become addicted to disconnection, dissociation, and identifying as victims in addition to substance use and other more traditional addictions—as well as sharing the essential elements and practices that have made their sustained long-term recovery possible. Dr. Bob explains that the first step in addressing addiction is to humanize the conversation around it and why. Our tendency toward addiction is universal, embedded in human nature itself, for one. And research shows that people who have suffered childhood trauma are five to ten times more susceptible to becoming addicts—their stress threshold five to ten times lower than other people’s, their stress hormones five to ten times higher. Studies also show that addiction is the most highly stigmatized mental disorder of all. It is humbling to realize what addicts are up against, calling us to compassion, understanding, and action.
Both Colette and Bob are solidly grounded in long-term sobriety and deeply dedicated to helping others out of their suffering. Top down, intellectual information is clearly not adequate to sustain recovery—so what is? Spiritual connection, social connection, shadow work, healing shame, surrendering. As Colette says, “In recovery, you discover there is something greater than yourself, your pain, your story, and your limitations—this is the solace.” There comes a turning point when it stops being all about us, and the desire to serve arises. With service comes the all-important experience of belonging. As Bob relates, “It’s not just about not drugging or drinking—I want a vital life.” And what is missing on a global, universal level? Again, connection and community. Recorded August 28, 2023.
Read MoreColette Baron-Reid & Dr. Bob Weathers (Part 1) – Humanizing Addiction, Sustaining Long-Term Recovery: Healing Effects of Trauma, Stigma & Shame, and Forging Lives of Connection, Service & Gratitude
Ep. 110 (Part 1 of 2) | Colette Baron-Reid and Dr. Bob Weathers shine a bright light on the big picture state of addiction in our fragmented culture today—how people have become addicted to disconnection, dissociation, and identifying as victims in addition to substance use and other more traditional addictions—as well as sharing the essential elements and practices that have made their sustained long-term recovery possible. Dr. Bob explains that the first step in addressing addiction is to humanize the conversation around it and why. Our tendency toward addiction is universal, embedded in human nature itself, for one. And research shows that people who have suffered childhood trauma are five to ten times more susceptible to becoming addicts—their stress threshold five to ten times lower than other people’s, their stress hormones five to ten times higher. Studies also show that addiction is the most highly stigmatized mental disorder of all. It is humbling to realize what addicts are up against, calling us to compassion, understanding, and action.
Both Colette and Bob are solidly grounded in long-term sobriety and deeply dedicated to helping others out of their suffering. Top down, intellectual information is clearly not adequate to sustain recovery—so what is? Spiritual connection, social connection, shadow work, healing shame, surrendering. As Colette says, “In recovery, you discover there is something greater than yourself, your pain, your story, and your limitations—this is the solace.” There comes a turning point when it stops being all about us, and the desire to serve arises. With service comes the all-important experience of belonging. As Bob relates, “It’s not just about not drugging or drinking—I want a vital life.” And what is missing on a global, universal level? Again, connection and community. Recorded August 28, 2023.
Read MoreJames Finley (Part 2) – Sacred Psychotherapy: Bringing Depth and Spirit to Healing, Suffering, and Trauma
Ep. 109 (Part 2 of 2) | Dr. James Finley, clinical psychologist, trauma specialist, scholar, poet, and author of the powerful memoir, The Healing Path, has an extraordinary breadth and depth of understanding about trauma and the alchemical effects of adding a depth dimension to therapy. Here, he shares about his own experience of trauma and healing, the therapeutic effects of introducing the depth dimension to his clients, the dynamics of anger and forgiveness, the path of longing, and how love gives itself away in the preciousness of each moment, rendering ordinary life sacred. James’ profound understanding of grace is unmistakable, beautiful, riveting—both from personal experience and as a student of Thomas Merton, who introduced him to the wisdom of the mystics at the Trappist monastery, Gethsemani.
Practically everything James says is both a poem and a revelation, so whether you are Christian, Buddhist, or atheist, this conversation offers a therapeutic wisdom and understanding of trauma that goes way beyond the norm, as well as a transmission of infinite love, bottomless mercy. At the end, James laughs at how he is talking: “I can’t believe I’m talking like this…a traumatized kid from Akron, Ohio. It’s not coming from me; it’s flowing through me. All I’m doing is passing on what was passed on to me. So as it catches fire in you, it might pass through you into others.” Recorded August 17, 2023.
Read MoreJames Finley (Part 1) – Sacred Psychotherapy: Bringing Depth and Spirit to Healing, Suffering, and Trauma
Ep. 108 (Part 1 of 2) | Dr. James Finley, clinical psychologist, trauma specialist, scholar, poet, and author of the powerful memoir, The Healing Path, has an extraordinary breadth and depth of understanding about trauma and the alchemical effects of adding a depth dimension to therapy. Here, he shares about his own experience of trauma and healing, the therapeutic effects of introducing the depth dimension to his clients, the dynamics of anger and forgiveness, the path of longing, and how love gives itself away in the preciousness of each moment, rendering ordinary life sacred. James’ profound understanding of grace is unmistakable, beautiful, riveting—both from personal experience and as a student of Thomas Merton, who introduced him to the wisdom of the mystics at the Trappist monastery, Gethsemani.
Practically everything James says is both a poem and a revelation, so whether you are Christian, Buddhist, or atheist, this conversation offers a therapeutic wisdom and understanding of trauma that goes way beyond the norm, as well as a transmission of infinite love, bottomless mercy. At the end, James laughs at how he is talking: “I can’t believe I’m talking like this…a traumatized kid from Akron, Ohio. It’s not coming from me; it’s flowing through me. All I’m doing is passing on what was passed on to me. So as it catches fire in you, it might pass through you into others.” Recorded August 17, 2023.
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