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Integral Theory
Zen for a World on Fire: How Zen Helps Us to Wake Up, Grow Up & Rise to the Challenges of Our Time
“There’s nothing like sitting with what is to prepare you to be with what is.”
In this potent and profound conversation, Zen teachers, Integral Facilitators, and conflict mediators, Diane Musho Hamilton and her student and co-author Gabriel Wilson, eloquently reveal the practical benefits of a life founded on contemplative practice. What they bring home so effectively—both in this conversation and in their new book, Waking Up and Growing Up—is how much we have to gain from an interface of traditional Zen and contemporary knowledge. “Buddhist practice is the most genius way to work with human suffering,” Diane says, and grounded in awareness of the fundamental oneness is where we want to be when engaging in social or political activism, or when facing any kind of conflict. “It’s the evolution of consciousness and the attendant set of skills to support that,” she continues. We can awaken to an awareness of our true nature, and then take up the gauntlet of growing up—“straight up maturation, straight-up ego development.”
In fact, what Gabe calls Diane’s “experiment” is nothing less than evolving the 2,500-year-old tradition of Zen, preserving and innovating, holding on to the wisdom, power, and grace of the tradition while bringing in the contributions of the West: psychology, shadow work, neuroscience, emotional development, and stage-appropriate interpersonal skills. Also, how to make sense of power dynamics, work with authority, and allow being pushed out of our comfort zone. A testament to Diane and Gabe’s own inner work, this groundbreaking conversation is inspiring and impactful, punctuated with deep, personal, experiential wisdom from both guests that speaks directly to how we can best wake up, grow up, and show up in this challenging world of ours. Recorded July 24, 2025.
Read MoreLessons of War: Courage & Creative Leadership Flourish in Ukraine
“The best way to practice spirituality is human rights assurance and activism; all the rest is secondary.”
Four solid years since Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine, integral thinkers Kateryna Yasko and Vytautas Bučiūnas relate what life in Ukraine is like—emotionally, physically, spiritually. Far from what you might expect of a conversation about the state of Ukraine after four years of war—far from being battered and downtrodden—this is a story of resilience, resourcefulness, courage, and accelerated human development. Kateryna likens Ukraine to a living laboratory of transformation—with everyone united in the fight to preserve democracy and their identity as a nation, “the social fabric is strong, the resilience is astonishing…heroes receive a lot of gratitude from the people they serve.” On a personal level, Kateryna and Vytas share how they have grown in ways they wouldn’t have expected: capacities have widened, appreciation of life has deepened, and experiences of profound joy arise in giving their all, together with their compatriots, for the future of the next generation.
Leadership in Ukraine is in an evolutionary elevator, Vytautas, an integral leadership development consultant, tells us. Leaders no longer have the option to be reactive or habitual, and this has generated extraordinary creativity and courage in leadership in the military, business, politics, and social groups. Kateryna, a pedagogical psychologist, points out that human rights, democracy, and freedom are foundational for spiritual growth. People need to understand how to manifest their political self, she says, because if they don’t, they will tend to escape into spirituality in a form of spiritual bypassing. “What can we do to help? co-host John Dupuy asks. “Come to Ukraine!” Kateryna and Vytas respond. Come experience and co-create the vertical development happening in this living laboratory of modern crisis. Recorded February 8, 2026.
Read MoreCan Our Democracy Be Healed? Taking Up the Fight
“To understand is to forgive.” – Dr. Michael Fischler
Ep. 220 (Part 2 of 2) | In part 2 of Sliding Towards Authoritarianism, Constitutional Law expert and Ethics professor Mark Fischler continues to explain why our democracy is faltering and considers what we might do to heal it. He further unpacks the significance of the extreme lack of civic understanding in the United States and, well informed about students’ cognitive abilities and mental health status nationwide, Professor Fischler adds the precipitous drop in achievement scores and through-the-roof diagnoses of ADHD, autism, anxiety, and depression to the mix, concluding, “You begin to see why an authoritarian world requiring only simple actions and answers would be more attractive than a democratic world that requires complexity, conversation, and the ability to see the intrinsic worth of the person across from you…the collective decision to honor democratic processes and the winner who was voted in.”
This is the challenge, Mark says: since everybody has a partial piece of the truth, we need to ask ourselves, am I curious enough to understand another’s partial piece of truth in order to enrich myself and help me understand that we are all in this together? We need to take up the fight for greater awareness that recognizes the good, the true, the beautiful, and the oneness of what is, Mark continues. Even after Mark’s poignant, in-depth look at the effects of the “course discourse” that has come to dominate the political arena and other significant factors contributing to the deterioration of our democracy, when asked what gives him hope, Mark answers, “A lot of things!” The discussion ends in a hopeful place—grim realities balanced with inspiring trends, including the growing recognition around the world that this is a global village we all live in together. Recorded December 4, 2025.
Read MoreSliding Towards Authoritarianism: Our Failing Democracy & What We Can Do About It
“An ignorant people can never remain a free people.” – Thomas Jefferson
Ep. 219 (Part 1 of 2) | Constitutional Law expert and Ethics professor Mark Fischler joins Deep Transformation again, to help us make sense of the slide towards authoritarianism happening in the United States today. Mark’s vast knowledge of the law, the Constitution, and the Supreme Court, his deep comprehension of ethics and morality, his Integral understanding, and his profound contemplative awareness all make for an extraordinary exploration of what is going on in this country at levels we don’t often consider. Beginning with examples of events in 2025 that are representative of various facets of authoritarianism, Mark goes on to discuss how the very crassness of the current Administration is undermining democracy: “We need to demand civil, fact-based discussion from our leaders, but we’re all accepting it’s okay to act like toddlers and dehumanize each other.”
Mark cites some stunning figures illustrating the widespread ignorance of democratic processes and institutions among the populace in this country, and describes why a lack of civic understanding makes us susceptible to authoritarians coming in and taking over. He also acknowledges that progressives are at fault for marginalizing conservatives, and calls on us to recognize the honor and dignity of all people, regardless of their politics—this is part of the solution, he explains. Mark’s passionate caring, wanting the best for all people and all beings, is a current that flows throughout, grounding the discussion in a beautiful way, while also making for a heartbreaking contrast relative to the chilling events happening in the political arena now. Recorded December 4, 2025.
Read More(Part 2) The Way of Spiritual Discernment: Attuning to Inner Guidance to Serve Oneself & the World with Fr. David McCallum, SJ
“Disasters and oppression today are by-products of a spiritual crisis… We don’t see the unity of all.”
Ep. 203 (Part 2 of 2) | In this rich, delightful, and profound conversation, Integral Theory informed Father David McCallum, SJ, currently serving the Catholic Church as executive director of the Program for Discerning Leadership, leads us into a world filled with mission, purpose, and service, foundational to which is the practice of discernment. David describes discernment as the capacity to exercise good judgment, hold complexity, and wait for clarity. This is not only a practice for individuals, he explains, but also a communal one, providing a way for communities to discern and design together the future they want to create—through listening, dialoguing, participating. Discernment is a way of knowing and making sense of reality, David continues, and especially important now in this era of changes and choices to be made.
David enlightens us as to the beautiful and far-sighted reforms proposed by the late Pope Francis, who was all for changing the balance of authority and participation in the Church; for people to have direct experience of Presence and the capacity to practice discernment; who also advocated for taking swift action on behalf of our planet, even calling out the part in the Bible that says man has dominion over the Earth. From David’s description of “the journey worth making”—surrendering, opening, accepting divine grace and love—to using Otto Scharmer’s U Process to help find the courage to change and simplify our lives for the benefit of all, to the Church’s relationship with A.I., David provides us with an extraordinarily mind-broadening, motivating, and spiritually fulfilling perspective. Recorded July 10, 2025.
Read MoreThe Way of Spiritual Discernment: Attuning to Inner Guidance to Serve Oneself & the World with Fr. David McCallum, SJ (Part 1)
“No secular, material, and empirical path is going to satisfy the longing we have for a transcendent purpose, for meaning, for existential belonging, in the ways that a healthy spirituality can.”
Ep. 202 (Part 1 of 2) | In this rich, delightful, and profound conversation, integralist Father David McCallum, SJ, currently serving the Vatican as executive director of the Program for Discerning Leadership, leads us into a world filled with mission, purpose, and service, foundational to which is the practice of discernment. David describes discernment as the capacity to exercise good judgment, hold complexity, and wait for clarity. This is not only a practice for individuals, he explains, but also a communal one, providing a way for communities to discern and design together the future they want to create—through listening, dialoguing, participating. Discernment is a way of knowing and making sense of reality, David continues, and especially important now in this era of changes and choices to be made.
David enlightens us as to the beautiful and far-sighted reforms proposed by the late Pope Francis, who was all for changing the balance of authority and participation in the Church; for people to have direct experience of Presence and the capacity to practice discernment; who also advocated for taking swift action on behalf of our planet, even calling out the part in the Bible that says man has dominion over the Earth. From David’s description of “the journey worth making”—surrendering, opening, accepting divine grace and love—to using Otto Scharmer’s U Process to help find the courage to change and simplify our lives for the benefit of all, to the Church’s relationship with A.I., David provides us with an extraordinarily mind-broadening, motivating, and spiritually fulfilling perspective. Recorded July 10, 2025.
Read More(Part 2) Assault on Democracy: The Legal, Ethical & Spiritual Implications of America’s Democratic Crisis with Mark Fischler
“The assault on democracy we are experiencing is also an assault on a spiritual understanding of the deeper nature of our existence.”
Ep. 192 (Part 2 of 2) | Professor Mark Fischler, constitutional law expert and co-host of the Integral Justice Warrior podcast, helps us make sense of what’s happening to our democracy, providing context—historical, legal, ethical—for the plethora of disturbing and destructive acts occurring on a daily basis in our political arena. The rule of law is under direct attack at this time, he explains, and an assault on democracy is essentially an assault on our most fundamental values—the principles this country was founded on: inclusivity, equality, and dignity for all.
Mark clarifies President Trump’s political actions in the context of developmental stages, unpacks Project 2025, and discusses the assault on higher education and critical thinking and what it portends. The trajectory of where we are headed, Mark points out, is regressing into values we have already transcended. We need our democratic foundation to move to deeper, post-democratic levels that are reflective of greater levels of interconnection and inclusivity—not the opposite, he says. What will it take to change the regressive trajectory? Courage! And involvement. Thank you, Mark, for bringing a rare depth and much-needed clarity to the subject of the evolving democratic crisis occurring in our nation today and its implications for our future. Recorded June 12, 2025.
Read MoreAssault on Democracy: The Legal, Ethical & Spiritual Implications of America’s Democratic Crisis with Mark Fischler (Part 1)
“The rule of law is a hard-earned process… and it’s under direct attack at this time in our country.”
Ep. 191 (Part 1 of 2) | Professor Mark Fischler, constitutional law expert and co-host of the Integral Justice Warrior podcast, helps us make sense of what’s happening to our democracy, providing context—historical, legal, ethical—for the plethora of disturbing and destructive acts occurring on a daily basis in our political arena. The rule of law is under direct attack at this time, he explains, and an assault on democracy is essentially an assault on our most fundamental values—the principles this country was founded on: inclusivity, equality, and dignity for all.
Mark clarifies President Trump’s political actions in the context of developmental stages, unpacks Project 2025, and discusses the assault on higher education and critical thinking and what it portends. The trajectory of where we are headed, Mark points out, is regressing into values we have already transcended. We need our democratic foundation to move to deeper, post-democratic levels that are reflective of greater levels of interconnection and inclusivity—not the opposite, he says. What will it take to change the regressive trajectory? Courage! And involvement. Thank you, Mark, for bringing a rare depth and much-needed clarity to the subject of the evolving democratic crisis occurring in our nation today and its implications for our future. Recorded June 12, 2025.
Read MoreKeith Witt (Part 2) – Relationship’s Farther Reaches: Exploring the Potentials of Loving, Learning, and Growing Together
Ep. 169 (Part 2 of 2) | Integral psychologist Keith Witt can’t get enough of the magic and beauty that happens in relationships as people begin to develop what he calls “a post-issue consciousness.” He explains that when our executive self, our wise self or witness, kicks in and forges a caring connection with the places where we hold our hurt and our traumas, then integration and healing start to happen, eventually with almost no conscious energy expenditure. “My job is to help people develop the witness,” Keith says, so they can observe their defensive or destructive states and reach for compassionate understanding, for themselves, for their partner, and for others.
Keith tells us the three foundations of the modern marriage are friendship, a love affair, and an ability to resolve issues that come up, and says the shift to a post-issue relationship happens when all three facets become intentional. “Post-issue couples don’t let things get in the way of their love,” he says. Throughout the conversation, Keith shares a goldmine of therapeutic wisdom on the subject of relationships, including the client/therapist relationship, and in true Integral fashion, he includes perspectives from all sorts of interesting angles, such as our evolutionary development, neural development, and moral and spiritual development. This discussion is warm, friendly, cheerful, lively, and chock full of useful information and insights. Keith’s excitement about the evolutionary directionality of human relationships is contagious and inspiring. Recorded August 16, 2024.
Read MoreKeith Witt (Part 1) – Relationship’s Farther Reaches: Exploring the Potentials of Loving, Learning, and Growing Together
Ep. 168 (Part 1 of 2) | Integral psychologist Keith Witt can’t get enough of the magic and beauty that happens in relationships as people begin to develop what he calls “a post-issue consciousness.” He explains that when our executive self, our wise self or witness, kicks in and forges a caring connection with the places where we hold our hurt and our traumas, then integration and healing start to happen, eventually with almost no conscious energy expenditure. “My job is to help people develop the witness,” Keith says, so they can observe their defensive or destructive states and reach for compassionate understanding, for themselves, for their partner, and for others.
Keith tells us the three foundations of the modern marriage are friendship, a love affair, and an ability to resolve issues that come up, and says the shift to a post-issue relationship happens when all three facets become intentional. “Post-issue couples don’t let things get in the way of their love,” he says. Throughout the conversation, Keith shares a goldmine of therapeutic wisdom on the subject of relationships, including the client/therapist relationship, and in true Integral fashion, he includes perspectives from all sorts of interesting angles, such as our evolutionary development, neural development, and moral and spiritual development. This discussion is warm, friendly, cheerful, lively, and chock full of useful information and insights. Keith’s excitement about the evolutionary directionality of human relationships is contagious and inspiring. Recorded August 16, 2024.
Read MoreSean Esbjörn-Hargens (Part 3) – The Boundless Riches of Nonduality: Understanding Nondual Experiences Across Traditions and Over Time
Ep. 157 (Part 3 of 3) | Integral polymath Sean Esbjörn-Hargens is the first comparative scholar to undertake exploring and differentiating the myriad varieties of nonduality. A longtime spiritual practitioner within several nondual traditions, Sean wanted to find out how we can understand the relationship between reality, consciousness, and practice. When he delved into an analysis of different traditions’ experience of nonduality, Sean was surprised and excited by what he found: 40 distinct nondual traditions, ancient and new, from both East and West, fascinating in their differences, their similarities, their uniqueness, and their depth. Sean’s hope is that his comparative study of nondual traditions will open the door to a global, cross-tradition dialogue that will supersede centuries of misunderstanding and conflict among people arguing that their realization is the only correct and/or best interpretation of reality.
Enthusiasm and excitement flow throughout the conversation as Sean reveals the provocative patterns he uncovered in nonduality’s history, like the mysterious flourishing of nondual traditions for a 300-year period starting in the 11th century. He covers specific distinctions he has mapped: the primary polarities across traditions (goal, path, context, practices), the different qualities that are emphasized (emptiness + omnipresence, emptiness + bliss, and more), and the six possible subject/object orientations of the traditions. Informed by A. H. Almaas’ awareness that there is no endpoint to spiritual realizations and Ken Wilber concluding that nonduality evolves (nonduality = emptiness + view; emptiness doesn’t change, but view does), along with his own findings of ever deepening and broadening nondual realizations, Sean wonders, “What will our nondual traditions look like in a thousand years? In two thousand years?” And, “What are some of the nondual seeds from other traditions that we are not watering?” Hang on to your hats for a thoroughly enjoyable and eye opening ride through a goldmine of information about the many faces of our nondual traditions. Recorded September 12, 2024.
Read MoreSean Esbjörn-Hargens (Part 2) – The Boundless Riches of Nonduality: Understanding Nondual Experiences Across Traditions and Over Time
Ep. 156 (Part 2 of 3) | Integral polymath Sean Esbjörn-Hargens is the first comparative scholar to undertake exploring and differentiating the myriad varieties of nonduality. A longtime spiritual practitioner within several nondual traditions, Sean wanted to find out how we can understand the relationship between reality, consciousness, and practice. When he delved into an analysis of different traditions’ experience of nonduality, Sean was surprised and excited by what he found: 40 distinct nondual traditions, ancient and new, from both East and West, fascinating in their differences, their similarities, their uniqueness, and their depth. Sean’s hope is that his comparative study of nondual traditions will open the door to a global, cross-tradition dialogue that will supersede centuries of misunderstanding and conflict among people arguing that their realization is the only correct and/or best interpretation of reality.
Enthusiasm and excitement flow throughout the conversation as Sean reveals the provocative patterns he uncovered in nonduality’s history, like the mysterious flourishing of nondual traditions for a 300-year period starting in the 11th century. He covers specific distinctions he has mapped: the primary polarities across traditions (goal, path, context, practices), the different qualities that are emphasized (emptiness + omnipresence, emptiness + bliss, and more), and the six possible subject/object orientations of the traditions. Informed by A. H. Almaas’ awareness that there is no endpoint to spiritual realizations and Ken Wilber concluding that nonduality evolves (nonduality = emptiness + view; emptiness doesn’t change, but view does), along with his own findings of ever deepening and broadening nondual realizations, Sean wonders, “What will our nondual traditions look like in a thousand years? In two thousand years?” And, “What are some of the nondual seeds from other traditions that we are not watering?” Hang on to your hats for a thoroughly enjoyable and eye opening ride through a goldmine of information about the many faces of our nondual traditions. Recorded September 12, 2024.
Read MoreSean Esbjörn-Hargens (Part 1) – The Boundless Riches of Nonduality: Understanding Nondual Experiences Across Traditions and Over Time
Ep. 155 (Part 1 of 3) | Integral polymath Sean Esbjörn-Hargens is the first comparative scholar to undertake exploring and differentiating the myriad varieties of nonduality. A longtime spiritual practitioner within several nondual traditions, Sean wanted to find out how we can understand the relationship between reality, consciousness, and practice. When he delved into an analysis of different traditions’ concept of nonduality, Sean was surprised and excited by what he found: 40 distinct nondual traditions, ancient and new, from both East and West, fascinating in their differences, their similarities, their uniqueness, and their depth. Sean’s hope is that his comparative study of nondual traditions will open the door to a global, cross-tradition dialogue that will supersede centuries of misunderstanding and conflict among people arguing that their realization is the only correct and/or best interpretation of reality.
Enthusiasm and excitement flow throughout the conversation as Sean reveals the provocative patterns he uncovered in nonduality’s history, like the mysterious flourishing of nondual traditions for a 300-year period starting in the 11th century. He covers specific distinctions he has mapped: the primary polarities across traditions (goal, path, context, practices), the different qualities that are emphasized (emptiness + omnipresence, emptiness + bliss, and more), and the six possible subject/object orientations of the traditions. Informed by A. H. Almaas’ awareness that there is no endpoint to spiritual realizations and Ken Wilber concluding that nonduality evolves (nonduality = emptiness + view; emptiness doesn’t change, but view does), along with his own findings of ever deepening and broadening nondual realizations, Sean wonders, “What will our nondual traditions look like in a thousand years? In two thousand years?” And, “What are some of the nondual seeds from other traditions that we are not watering?” Hang on to your hats for a thoroughly enjoyable and eye opening ride through a goldmine of information about the many faces of our nondual traditions. Recorded September 12, 2024.
Read MoreRon Interpreter (Part 2) – Ancestral Wisdom for Spirituality, Recovery & Life: An Integration of Native Traditions, Psychedelic Experiences & Integral Theory
Ep. 152 (Part 2 of 2) | Life coach, recovery coach, and plant medicine ceremonialist Ron Interpreter has created a multidimensional, whole person healing modality that integrates Navajo spiritual teachings and traditions with Ken Wilber’s Integral Model and Integral spirituality. Humanity is shifting, Ron explains, and is now looking to the teachings of the ancestors and Indigenous practices that can bring a sense of authenticity, purpose, and meaning to our lives. Native spirituality teaches us how we can relate to the elements of earth, fire, water and air in terms of remedies and medicines, and also in terms of beliefs and emotional connections. Plant medicine and other mind-altering ceremonies provide us with the means to get beyond the psychological limitations we put on ourselves, attain higher states of consciousness, and receive answers to our deepest questions.
With a calm, articulate fervency, Ron shares the ancestral wisdom he teaches to people in recovery or who are suffering from trauma, including special ops forces and veterans: the Native concepts of taking responsibility, being accountable, forging a relationship with God or Spirit, and living from a profound understanding of what it means to be a human being. “We are in the creation of self—how do we practice our selves?” Ron asks. The Indigenous teachings that Ron brings forward provide a deep sense of grounding in Nature and Spirit, as we come to a better understanding of our place in the universe and the practices that can open us up to living in a sacred way, in connection with divine being. Recorded August 1, 2024.
Read MoreRon Interpreter (Part 1) – Ancestral Wisdom for Spirituality, Recovery & Life: An Integration of Native Traditions, Psychedelic Experiences & Integral Theory
Ep. 151 (Part 1 of 2) | Life coach, recovery coach, and plant medicine ceremonialist Ron Interpreter has created a multidimensional, whole person healing modality that integrates Navajo spiritual teachings and traditions with Ken Wilber’s Integral Model and Integral spirituality. Humanity is shifting, Ron explains, and is now looking to the teachings of the ancestors and Indigenous practices that can bring a sense of authenticity, purpose, and meaning to our lives. Native spirituality teaches us how we can relate to the elements of earth, fire, water and air in terms of remedies and medicines, and also in terms of beliefs and emotional connections. Plant medicine and other mind-altering ceremonies provide us with the means to get beyond the psychological limitations we put on ourselves, attain higher states of consciousness, and receive answers to our deepest questions.
With a calm, articulate fervency, Ron shares the ancestral wisdom he teaches to people in recovery or who are suffering from trauma, including special ops forces and veterans: the Native concepts of taking responsibility, being accountable, forging a relationship with God or Spirit, and living from a profound understanding of what it means to be a human being. “We are in the creation of self—how do we practice ourselves?” Ron asks. The Indigenous teachings that Ron brings forward provide a deep sense of grounding in Nature and Spirit, as we come to a better understanding of our place in the universe and the practices that can open us up to living in a sacred way, in connection with divine being. Recorded August 1, 2024.
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